Hatem Alakeel

Malak Fouad
[00:05 - 00:25] Welcome again to What I Did Next from A&T Media. I'm Malak Fouad. I welcome a new guest from the region on each episode and we take a deep dive into their lives' most pivotal moments. On today's episode, fashion and branding entrepreneur Hatem Alakeel tells me why his mission to showcase the best of his native Saudi Arabia is so important to him.

Hatem Alakeel
[00:25 - 00:57] How are we even going to have our own identity if our heritage and our culture is not ingrained in what we create? For people to give us attention, for people to start respecting us, they have to realize that we have our own stories and our own stories have to be reflected in our work. Western culture has really kind of inspired me over the years. I've learned a lot and I'm grateful to Western culture. But now it's time to also focus on our own culture and our identity. And I believe that this is also what Saudi Arabia is doing, tapping into what is their identity and taking it further.

Malak Fouad
[00:59 - 01:37] Hatem Alakeel is an award-winning designer, entrepreneur, and podcast host. He has designed for global icons including Mattel's Barbie, Evian, Lexus, Fairmont, Raffles, and the Ritz-Carlton, among others. And he was among the first regional artists to create and celebrate Saudi traditions. His first company, Toby Hatem Alakeel, brought the traditional thobe into the luxury fashion world with displays at Harvey Nichols, Saks Fifth Avenue, and Boutique One. Today, Hatem runs Authenticité, a consulting and creative production agency, connecting creators and brands who want to better understand Saudi culture. He also continues developing content with his editorial pieces,
[01:38 - 02:14] showcasing Saudi artists on his website and through his podcast, Gems of Arabia. Hatem and I are the same age and grew up with similar points of reference. He's an incredibly easy person to interview and talk to. As a de facto ambassador for brand Saudi Arabia, he brings humor and the perfect blend of East meets West to the table. Being able to explain the other and be at ease with the other is a great way to connect with the other. The fact that he's in different cultures is something he and I have in common and perhaps take for granted. However, it's a major asset and he wears it lightly and elegantly. Hatim grew up in Saudi Arabia and in the U.S. and went to boarding school in Switzerland before attending Boston University.

Hatem Alakeel
[02:15 - 02:41] Many elements towards how much I benefited from being in boarding school in Switzerland. One of them was the fact that I was exposed to so many cultures with people from all over the world, whether it's Australia, whether it's Mombasa, whether it's Europe, whether it's the States. So being exposed to such a wide range of cultures, I was able to learn a lot about the world. A very diverse community from a very young age made me much more open-minded and much more exposed to different mentalities, different cultures. I'm very grateful for that, actually.

Malak
[02:41 - 02:59] And I think when you were in Boston there at the time, there was a huge Arab community there, even now, actually. Did you find yourself becoming friends more with the Arabs or did you try and meet other people or how did it go for you? I mean, for me, it was always about diversity.

Other speaker
[03:00 - 03:03] Yes, there were Saudis. Yes, there were Egyptians. Yes, there were Lebanese.

Hatem Alakeel
[03:03 - 03:27] But there were also, you know, Italians. There were Kuwaitis. There were French. So I always kind of like to have that kind of exposure. I've been bridging cultures, I think, since day one. I was always kind of like, felt like an ambassador to Saudi. I always wanted to kind of represent Saudi in a certain way ever since I was a kid.

Malak
[03:28 - 03:45] That's interesting. That's interesting. I'm very similar because I lived in many different countries. And I find that you're always explaining one part of yourself or one part of your culture to whoever you're sitting with. And it can be fun, but it can also be a little bit isolating, maybe. I don't know.

Hatem Alakeel
[03:46 - 04:16] It can be a bit frustrating where people are undermining you. Oh, my God, really? You're from there? But, okay, why? There's so many diverse cultured people from all over the world. I don't know why. Yeah. There's a specific stereotype that has to exist when you are from a certain region. And I always felt like it was kind of my role to change perception through my fashion, through my work, through everything that I ended up doing. It became almost like a mission for me to show what we're about as Arabs.
[04:16 - 04:35] I think we all have a responsibility to do that, especially when our parents made the effort and the investment and the ethos of making sure. I think we all have a responsibility to do that, especially when our parents made the effort and the ethos of making sure. That we have that kind of bridging perspective. It's our duty to represent, I think.

Malak
[04:35 - 05:05] I think also that there is now a receptiveness in Western countries to hear the story. You know, they realize that there's diversity, there is sophistication, and we're not all lumped into one bucket. What's happening in Morocco is different to what's happening in the UAE, is different to Oman, is different. To Syria, we were all just one before, and clearly that's now changing, and that can only be a good thing.

Hatem Alakeel
[05:06 - 05:13] It was all either, you know, basically Alibaba and 1,000 Nights, or that's pretty much how they see us, you know.

Malak
[05:13 - 05:15] Yeah, or terrorists.

Hatem Alakeel
[05:15 - 05:42] Or terrorists, yeah. Unfortunately, you know, there's a lot of lack of knowledge on Arabia, lack of knowledge on our part of the world. And now people have no choice because they have been so affected by the lack of humanity. They want to learn more about. They want to learn more about what's happening. I think it just reiterates the fact that we are all one in the end, you know. Yeah. We're all humans, and the fact that certain people don't understand what is happening is baffling to me, baffling, you know. Yeah.
[05:42 - 05:56] And I think it's high time that more light is shed on us as an Arab community, and our capabilities, our passions, and what we are going through as well.

Malak
[05:56 - 06:11] So, you did something very exciting. student, you became a model. So you went to New York while you were studying in Boston, and you signed up with an agency, and you did modeling on the side.

Hatem Alakeel
[06:11 - 06:51] Yeah, well, it wasn't something that I kind of, you know, pursued, but it kind of came, fell into my plate. And I thought, you know, why not? It was giving me the opportunity to go and visit New York. I love New York. New York was such a diverse, cosmopolitan place, very different than anywhere else in the US. You know, Anna Wintour used to say, you want to see what is next year's fashion, go to the meatpacking district, and you will see what the trends are. And I love the sense of individuality that people have, even besides fashion, just culturally, they were much more in tune with what's happening in the world. But everyone had their own take, everyone had their own perspective. It's very much the melting pot, because every nationality is there. Absolutely. Very cosmopolitan, very diverse. And I was lucky
[06:51 - 07:31] enough to, you know, walk for Armani, Jill Sander, and various designers. And from there, I really became bitten by the fashion bug. And I'm like, wait a minute. Wow. Why am I not studying fashion? What am I doing? This is a world that I really love. And I tried to find the formula all throughout my early career before I became a designer, to find the formula of how can I work in fashion? And why didn't I study it? But then I realized that, you know, wait a minute, you don't really have to study everything that you're passionate about. But it was actually a turning point for me that made me realize that you can multitask. And you can pursue different things while you're still focusing on one thing. So graduated,
[07:31 - 07:35] wanted to stay a little bit longer and do more modeling, but the family was like, absolutely not.

Malak
[07:37 - 07:46] There's only so much they'll accept, right? Yeah, exactly. And it was a blessing in disguise that put me in a position where I had to go back

Other speaker
[07:46 - 07:52] and make something of myself. So I worked in marketing, I worked in advertising, I worked in

Hatem Alakeel
[07:52 - 08:26] banking. But when I worked in banking, I realized, okay, this is not for me. I was never really part of the corporate environment. I could never really fit into the corporate world. It was not my, I didn't feel it was my calling. And it didn't match my ethos of wanting to create, wanting to become an individual. So I went to London and went to Savile Row and then a light bulb came out. While I was going to London, I realized that, wait a minute, why don't we bring a bit of Savile Row into tradition? So I saw that the taupe market was still kind of limited when it comes to execution, when it comes to...
[08:26 - 09:06] Quality. So I went back to Saudi. At that time, I was at the bank. At the bank, you had to wear a suit every day or you wear a taupe. And I had to wear a taupe every day. And I'm like, I'm not about to wear the same thing every day. Like I refuse. So I found some great tailors. And my parents, my mother was nice enough to let me use the house where I could get a tailor and have some machines to come in and actually make some proper bespoke taubes. So through Google, through tutorials, through trial and error, we crafted and created really immaculately made taubes. So are you self-taught?
[09:06 - 09:07] I'm self-taught, yes.

Malak
[09:07 - 09:17] And did you actually sew yourself? I mean, did you say, I want this cut like this? I want to do it like this? I mean, did you get really involved in how you wanted your taubes to look?

Hatem Alakeel
[09:18 - 09:54] I never studied patternmaking. I never studied stitching, but I found some great tailors and I understood what quality was. So... We always love fashion. You know, this is something that my mom, Allah al-Rahman, always gave us, you know, understanding quality, understanding fashion. So I had some really beautiful shirts that were made immaculately. And I said, why can't we translate this? Brought those as examples, as prototypes. And from there, we started to create the execution. Proud to say that we brought some quality into the taupe making, you know, well-finished colors, detailing. Obviously, I took it to the next level where I made them very avant-garde.

Malak
[09:54 - 10:02] They do look different. They don't look, obviously, not at all like the traditional. Thank you. And there's an edge to them. They're really funky.

Hatem Alakeel
[10:02 - 10:09] Thanks a lot. Ever since, even since boarding school days, I always wanted to show that our culture and our heritage can hold its own with international.

Malak
[10:10 - 10:37] I want to know how your family reacted when you left the banking world and the more corporate, traditional, conventional world behind. And you said, you know, fashion is where my heart is. This is what I want to do. And obviously you were a pioneer, not just maybe for your family, not in your family only, but obviously within your larger peer group, I'm sure. How was that?

Hatem Alakeel
[10:38 - 11:16] Honestly, I'm very lucky because my mother-in-law and my brother were always very supportive in all the decisions that I make. You know, I always went by the beat of my own drum and I was always very stubborn. So there wasn't any kind of... They had no choice. They didn't really have any choice, no. But I mean, they saw that I had a vision and they saw that my approach was very different and they saw that there was a niche for it in the market. So it made sense. You know, there was an actual business plan. Not the business plan that maybe I should have really focused on, but there was a vision.
[11:17 - 11:55] And from there, they just kind of realized that, you know, I'm onto something and this is my calling and I've always wanted to work in fashion. I always couldn't find the right formula. And then when this light bulb went up in London, I realized, you know what, this is what I need to start doing. You know, what I'm doing is also changing the narrative on how cliche and how primitive people look at our culture. As we had spoken earlier on, I feel like it's our calling as Arabs who are westernized or who have been exposed to the West to showcase the beauty and the brilliance of our culture and how rich and how multifaceted it is. Absolutely. It can be, you know.

Malak Fouad
[11:58 - 12:21] When we come back, we'll look at how Toby became an inflection point for Hatem's career and the launch of Authenticite. That's right after this short break. Welcome back. You're listening to what I did next with my guest, Hatem Alakeel. In 2007, Hatem opened his first boutique for thobes.

Hatem Alakeel
[12:21 - 12:50] I participated in Dubai Fashion Week and Sheikh Majed Al-Sabah attended my show. And at that time, he had Villa Moda, Dubai, Kuwait and Bahrain. And from the first show, I was very lucky to have a Saudi brand, traditional brand, alongside Marni, Prada, Dolce & Gabbana. Like, this is the kind of narrative that I wanted to create through my fashion to show them. And of that caliber, you were in that caliber, which is what you wanted.

Malak
[12:50 - 12:51] Exactly.

Other speaker
[12:51 - 12:57] So and from there, the rest is history. I opened two other boutiques in Jeddah. I opened one in Riyadh.

Hatem Alakeel
[12:58 - 13:36] I was very lucky to have been able to dress international celebrities. Exactly. Such as, you know, Snoop Dogg to Christian Louboutin, and we also dressed, we were commissioned to do the polo match for Prince William as well. So kind of really took off. I was very lucky to be able to express myself in that way. However, at that time, we always had to go to Dubai to get ourselves recognized. The ecosystem, fashion ecosystem wasn't there. We really kind of, you know, had to jump through hoops and we were pretty much on our own, you know. So I was lucky to have had the support of the family. To be able to pursue my dream and continue doing my fashion shows and doing my collections.

Malak
[13:36 - 13:57] So you carried on until about 2020 and then COVID hit and that changed the dynamics both on the ground and also in you. Yes. What you wanted to pursue after Toby. So did you officially close it down? Yes. That was that must have been quite sad, though, for you. It was very difficult.

Hatem Alakeel
[13:57 - 14:36] But what we have to realize is that... Yes. Since we don't have the infrastructure as a designer, when you become a designer like me, who's very emphatic, very, you know, much of a perfectionist, the end result has to be perfect. And the only way we can guarantee quality is if you have your own manufacturing, you have your own workshop, you have your own sales team, you have... So designer friends of mine who are in New York, who are in Paris, they create the collection, they go to a workshop, they make a contract and they create their own prototype. And from there, they're free. You know? They don't have to worry about it. We weren't able to do that in those days. Now things are improving.
[14:36 - 14:38] Eventually, inshallah, it will get to that stage.

Malak
[14:39 - 14:45] And when you were working, what was the situation, Hatem? How did you create your line? I had to do everything.

Other speaker
[14:45 - 14:47] I had to find my own tailors. I had to create my own patterns.

Hatem Alakeel
[14:47 - 15:27] I had to source my own fabrics. And it was quite a process. And at the same time, when the end result was ready, for example, if PT Umo wants to buy a few pieces, I wasn't able to supply because they want 300 pieces. How am I going to come up with the 300 pieces with the same quality? I'm not going to go to any random workshop and do them. So for me, if I go back into fashion, if I can guarantee that I can get the quality of the production for 50 pieces or 300 pieces, I will go back to it. But that was always a process and an ongoing battle for me. And I felt like, you know what, I'll wait this one out. Why don't I help other people for change and see?
[15:27 - 15:51] And at the same time, it's actually very rewarding. I'm able now to create. I'm able now to create opportunities for communities. I've been doing my own content for the past 20 years where I would do my photo shoots. I would do. And I realized I really had a passion for that. So why not do that by empowering and bridging local creatives and shedding light on them with international brands? This is how authenticity came about, you know?

Malak
[15:51 - 16:28] And I also think it's interesting. I mean, you know, zaman, our parents, grandparents had one career for life. Or they worked at one company for life. And that's not the reality anymore. We don't do that anymore. You know, now people jump from thing to thing or they outgrow things or for whatever reason, they take a different direction. But yours is obviously complementary to what you had been doing. It's something, as you said, you'd always been doing. It had always been there in the background, kind of percolating. And then you threw yourself into it. So tell me about authenticity.

Hatem Alakeel
[16:29 - 16:29] Authenticite.

Malak
[16:30 - 16:38] Authenticite. Yeah. And in Arabic, it's asala. Asala. Okay. Okay. Authenticite. Okay. So it's French. It's a French pronunciation.

Hatem Alakeel
[16:38 - 16:43] I mean, because of my French education, I always kind of incorporate a bit of, you know, that.

Malak
[16:43 - 16:44] Of course. Of course.

Hatem Alakeel
[16:44 - 17:23] But the whole point is because I feel like a lot of creatives have been overlooked because they don't have the capital. They don't have the PR, whereas so we don't get to shine the light on them, you know, because they don't have a voice. So for me, I realized. And also, it kind of kills the credibility of the market where you only get to see certain people versus there are so many incredible people that we don't know about, you know. So my mission was always to kind of shed light on the hidden and the shimmering gems of Saudi Arabia. And I think that there's an incredible community of creatives who all they need is one push.

Malak
[17:23 - 17:29] And what do you, what is this? Is this an agency or is it, what is it exactly?

Hatem Alakeel
[17:29 - 18:04] So it's a marketing and branding. Yeah. It's a marketing agency and we also do content. We do activations. The ethos is to ensure that we are authentic in every, in the messaging and the selection and the curation of talent that we curate. We always make sure that we curate people who have, you know, a great storytelling, a great voice, a great way of looking at things differently and showing the new Saudi Arabia, showing where Saudi Arabia really is heading. And I'm also part of the fashion society in Saudi Arabia. And of course I have, you know, our platform on social media.
[18:05 - 18:39] We'll get to the podcast as well, which is complimentary, but I feel very proud of the fact that a lot of international brands now are starting to really take our markets much more seriously. So a lot of them have been very supportive, whether it's Harrods, whether it's Valentino, whether it's Boucheron, brands that want to enter the market in a different way. And it's no longer one size fits all. We're brands. Brands just hire one agency. I think they want a new voice. They want a new perspective. They want to see things from a different box. And this is where we come in.

Malak
[18:40 - 19:13] I had interviewed Imran Amed from the business of fashion. And at the time, this was last May. And he had just come out with a report about the retail environment in the Middle East and how all the big designers used to just focus on Ramadan. And produce caftans and then think that they had provided what the region needed and call it a day and then go back home. And, you know, that the report that he came back with was showing a very sophisticated market.
[19:13 - 19:52] But also, interestingly, which I'm sure you have also seen, is a turning away from everything Western and an assumption that everything that comes from the West is best. And an acceptance and a pride in local. And melding maybe a bit of this, a bit of that. But traditional fashion, traditional ornaments, jewelry, whatever you want to design, traditional design, is having a resurgence now with a younger generation, right? Are you seeing that?
[19:52 - 19:55] How are we even going to have our own identity?

Other speaker
[19:55 - 20:03] If our heritage and our culture is not ingrained in what we create? We might as well just, you know, follow what everyone else is doing.

Hatem Alakeel
[20:03 - 20:36] The whole point of creating your own essence, creating your own culture, creating your own narrative and showcasing what we are about. For us, for people to give us attention, for people to start respecting us, they have to realize that we have our own stories. And our own stories have to be reflected in our work. That's the rule. And that's always been kind of my ethos, you know? People look at our culture going towards tradition as primitive. Actually, I don't agree. I think it's very progressive. And I think it gives us a stronger sense of identity.
[20:37 - 21:17] Now, a lot of us are celebrating our identity and it's giving us even more strength and more credibility. Because there is this identity that now we have realized, which is heritage, which is culture. And the way we execute it, the way we showcase it, it's up to us. But there are so many incredibly well-executed concepts, whether it's fashion, whether it's, for example, a brand like Abadia, which you must follow. Shahada al-Sahail. Incredible approach towards tradition. Very progressive, sustainable fabrics. Really beautiful, beautifully executed. It could be in Milan. It could be anywhere.
[21:17 - 21:52] And it doesn't stop there. It's an interior design. It's poetry. It's fashion. It's writing. It's content. So many elements that people have to see in our culture. So we work with a lot of also international brands that want to have a different strategy. So it's across the board. We offer a 360 solution in coming into the market, thinking of how to approach the market marketing-wise. I think PR-wise also. We work with major PR companies to make sure that they have the right voice for the market.
[21:53 - 21:58] i've been doing this for a long time you know like over 20 years so remember i started when i was

Malak
[21:58 - 22:31] five you know so it makes me 25. no and not only that you're in a unique position because as you said you're a bridge you're a bridge because you obviously know your own culture very well but you also know the west very well uh having been educated in europe and in the us so you know exactly how they what is required by them the level of professionalism that they expect and you're a translator left and right you're able to explain one side to the other and i think um

Hatem Alakeel
[22:31 - 23:04] that's what it enables you to do this work thank you and it's uh it honestly is an area that i've always wanted to involve myself in because changing perception and uh elevating uh the narrative the cliche and the narratives that we have i'm able to translate that in my work i'm able to not just fashion now i can do that through my work with my clients with my content so it's it's amazing to see how much more responsive the uh the western brands are and how much more uh eager and trusting
[23:04 - 23:14] they are now versus before like two two three years ago sky's the limit really tell me a little

Malak
[23:14 - 23:26] bit about the podcast it's called Gems of Arabia we're trying to to follow your your great footsteps and i think we're all following each other we're all together you're very kind thank you

Hatem Alakeel
[23:26 - 23:50] really love what you're doing as well and the substance that you are providing thank you thank you so much gems of arabia actually started about six years ago it was a column that i was writing even though i was a you know designing i always wanted to continue what i'm doing through fashion but through writing so really highlight people who inspire me and showing how incredible people are we we know we did the Christian Laboutin going to Saudi Arabia madan Saleh

Malak
[23:50 - 23:56] and where were the columns uh hatem where were you uh uh publishing these when i first started it

Hatem Alakeel
[23:56 - 24:25] was at uh with Bureau uh which is a uh local portal but then i continued and now uh they are on my website i see i see so for me my mission was always to showcase uh how rich our culture is you know uh i i was blessed enough to have the first interview with support with Princess Reema Bandar uh from ISA which is a high school that i went to in the u.s Islamic Saudi Academy and she's the

Malak
[24:25 - 24:31] Saudi ambassador to Washington yes yeah so i remember the the first article that we wrote

Hatem Alakeel
[24:31 - 24:50] that was when before she started and she was uh the messaging that she had in the article was that she hopes to one day see the Saudi women not just uh you know a dreamer but a success story and it's amazing how she has manifested it and look at where it has come and how full circle it has become and mashallah where she is now you know like the mx

Malak
[24:50 - 25:03] it's incredible exemplary lady for for for all generations she's a wonderful role model and an an example for all women not just arab women absolutely and for me and and when i started

Hatem Alakeel
[25:03 - 25:37] i always wanted i was there's so many people that i was inspired by and i wanted to write about them so and it goes on you know we have mashallah who's the first saudi aerospace engineer uh to uh you know hussein al-rida uh when he first started you know the first saudi uh olympic rower i mean and it goes on and it goes on and then from there from there it just resonated and uh came coveted uh and then i said you know what i want to start doing this so i started opening my uh my first start filming my first episodes and the uh the rest is history you know it was nice to be able
[25:37 - 25:50] it's one thing to create content uh and do videos but it's another thing to have a deep dive with key people that that inspire you where you really get to you know connect with with the community and and much more kind of uh you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know

Malak
[25:50 - 26:12] of you know personal in a way and that's the beauty of podcasts right hatem because you can spend as long as you want talking about specific subjects you can drill down deep and you already know that you have people who are going to be interested in that subject so you know you're not going to appeal to everyone but the people you appeal to you're going to

Hatem Alakeel
[26:12 - 26:49] appeal to very deeply absolutely and across all industries so we had uh collaborated with the saudi cup which was uh you know an honor where we we interviewed key people from uh Prince Bandar Alfaisal to Princess Nourah Alfaisal um Dina Abiraziz who's our fashion icon, i'm sure, she's literally the first Arab woman to go to the you know uh Met Galas, Vanity Fair, international parties like a global ambassador for fashion, uh we look up to her and she has also been a force in fashion uh
[26:50 - 27:25] who is a designer for Claire Danes and Michelle Obama, yes very well known, yeah told me that he stocked his first collection at DNA boutique in Riyadh which is uh Princess Dina's uh boutique so imagine you know like the the impact that certain people have you know we have also had Farida Khalfe who is someone who i respect tremendously. We brought her to Saudi, we had the fashion fan who's the first um arab uh supermodel yeah so it doesn't just stop at uh Saudi it's Saudi- centric but we are inclusive of the MENA, we're inclusive to all the people who have contributed
[27:25 - 27:32] to the arabic landscape in a positive way. When we come back, we talk about the root-and-branch

Malak Fouad
[27:32 - 27:38] transformation underway in Saudi Arabia and how Hatem sees his legacy. That's after this break.
[27:45 - 27:48] Welcome back you're listening to my conversation with Hatem Alakeel.

Malak
[27:50 - 28:26] i want to talk about Saudi Arabia as a country that is coming in from the cold going into a new phase. You're in the heart of it. Ss a lot of my listeners know i grew up in Saudi from the mid-70s to the mid-80s in Jeddah and i went back to Jeddah a year ago. And i was lucky enough to attend the Islamic Art Biennale and visit AlUla and i was blown away by what I saw. I saw a modern country, I saw a very proud
[28:26 - 28:47] country. I saw a country uh opening up to outsiders wanting to show their traditions, and um and and and show their heritage and I wanted your take on how has it happened, where is it going and and just

Hatem Alakeel
[28:47 - 29:26] your thoughts on it. Well i have one word, MBS, yeah it is a vision that he has had uh the 2030 vision is paramount and is has changed all our lives. All the things that we we dreamed of are now happening. You know i remember when I first started designing you know imagine if I had that infrastructure, imagine you know, the possibilities and the opportunities that Alhamdu'llah, I've had the opportunities but imagine how much more. So he's literally giving all the elements that we dreamed of on a silver platter and it's not just about the vision, it's also about the execution and the planning and you look at all the the people that are being hired,
[29:26 - 29:56] ministers, ambassadors, all young, all dynamic or progressive in their thinking uh it's a math i mean this is what it takes really it's a question uh the vision is also clearly has a lot of passion and clearly there is a lot of passion towards heritage towards culture and look at any country now and look at the country that really is synonymous with heritage and celebrating its culture is Saudi Arabia you know we we uh utilize all the the elements of heritage in all our countries

Malak
[29:56 - 30:26] um i think it's also very interesting that after uh the Khashoggi killing when MBS was shunned for a few years how he has now been completely embraced and part of the landscape and every consultant is flocking to Saudi Arabia to work on all these mega projects neom AlUla etc.
[30:26 - 30:59] And all the, you know, Biden, the United Kingdom, everyone is coming back and has embraced Saudi again, as if that incident never happened. And I find it interesting. Is it possibly because the world economy is not doing so well and they realize they can't be the schoolmaster telling Saudi, no, you cannot be included, you will stay on the side.
[30:59 - 31:11] They realize they have to embrace Saudi. Saudi is a very important market, very important country, and they have to accept that this is a reality and that they, you know. They have to deal with him now.

Hatem Alakeel
[31:11 - 31:39] I mean, I think that the vision is definitely what people are starting to see now, you know, whether it's art, like we had discussed, whether it's fashion, whether it's the evolution of so many incredible women who are at the forefront in positions, leading and showing the way, you know. The media always likes to exaggerate things, unfortunately, you know, but it's come to a point now where social media has made the world a lot smaller.
[31:40 - 32:01] And people are not dumb or deaf anymore, and they can see the beauty of the culture, the beauty of the community, how genuine we are about how we feel and how over the years we have not been able to express ourselves. So everyone is able to kind of flourish and show who they are and show what they're about, you know.

Malak
[32:01 - 32:39] And I think also, if we look at it in a bigger picture, the geopolitical aspect. With this war in Gaza. I think. I think because masks have fallen and wherever you sit in the world, no one is above anyone else. And I think for a very long time, there was that feeling of the West looking down at a lot of countries in the Middle East and elsewhere in Africa and so on. And that can't be the case anymore. And I think what we're seeing is we're seeing not just a realignment of.
[32:39 - 33:14] Of certain countries, but we're seeing we're in a transition phase, I think, where some countries are rising and rising very powerfully. And and I think Saudi is one of them. I think Saudi is going to be, you know, how Egypt had been the leader of the Middle East for a very long time in terms of culture, in terms of power, wealth, etc. I think that role is now. Yeah. Being ceded to Saudi. You know, it's been a long time coming, but I think it is happening.
[33:15 - 33:28] And I think it's interesting to see to be to be here now and watch it happen. I think as an observer is a very interesting thing to be to be watching. And I'm sure you're you're feeling it, too, where you are.

Hatem Alakeel
[33:28 - 33:54] I mean, we can't tell you how how thrilled we are to see the progress happening. And especially now you have incredible, very dynamic younger generation, you know. That is also given the opportunity to kind of showcase their their creativity, their work, the sites, the gems that we have, the history that we have discovering, you know, from Al-Ula and going back and even deeper.
[33:55 - 34:24] And then also, let's not forget that we're also that, you know, we have Makkah and Medina, which are major, very important sites that articulate also the balance that we have between being still holding on to our tradition, still holding on to our roots. But also moving forward. And that's what people have to realize is that we need to also respect our values, respect our traditions. And it's only a question of people, again, saying, looking at us as we're not we're no longer seen as primitive.
[34:26 - 34:43] On the contrary, we're seen as more dynamic and we're seeing as more progressive because we are able to hold on to our traditions, hold on to our heritage and still move forward. I don't know why people, you know, modernity. Modernity means West. It doesn't necessarily have to be that. No, Western culture.

Malak
[34:43 - 34:44] You can do the two.

Hatem Alakeel
[34:44 - 35:04] Yeah, I can do the two. And, you know, Western culture has been has really kind of inspired me over the years. I've learned a lot. I'm grateful to Western culture. But now it's time to also focus on our own culture. And as I mentioned on our identity, and I believe that this is also what Saudi Arabia is doing, tapping into what is their identity and taking it further.

Malak
[35:09 - 35:27] If you were to look back at what you've done so far. What do you think, what for you is, is the most important aspect of what you've done so far? What do you want to be remembered for? What do you feel you'll, you know, you'll leave behind, so to speak?

Hatem Alakeel
[35:27 - 35:52] Someone who made a difference, showing the culture in a different light. Someone who has given opportunity to the creative community. Someone who is, who has. Hopefully a good son, someone who was a good brother, a good friend. Because at the end of the day, when you go, you, you take your good deeds with you. So we should be involved.

Malak
[35:52 - 36:06] That's all you take with you. Nothing else. You're right. And that's what matters. Yeah, absolutely. I hope to one day kind of be able to do something more even for the community that I'm working with.

Hatem Alakeel
[36:06 - 36:25] And I feel like, although I'll always be a designer at heart. What I'm doing. Now, being able to reach out to communities and empower them is, has been much more rewarding. So I hope that the community will, will appreciate and see, see my vision, you know, when I'm gone.

Malak
[36:25 - 36:36] And, and do you feel that you have another turning point in you coming up? Or do you feel that this is the path you're, you're, you're happy to continue on for now?

Hatem Alakeel
[36:36 - 37:13] I haven't even started my, my checklist. That's amazing. I haven't even started. There's a lot that I want to accomplish across the board. Um, whether it's, it's film, whether it's fashion, whether even fashion, you know, even, um, creating, uh, an infrastructure and ecosystem that's even more pronounced, uh, for the creative community and people don't keep forgetting the creative community is not just artists and you have entrepreneurs, you have poets, you have so many people that are incredible that need to have a voice. And, uh, we've been able to do. Yeah.
[37:13 - 37:17] And do that professionally, you know, so, uh, inshallah, I hope to continue doing that.

Malak
[37:17 - 37:32] Have you considered just, uh, as a, as something that just, I thought of now, have you considered of putting together some kind of creative summit in Saudi and inviting people from the region, not just from within? Is that something you're considering to do?

Hatem Alakeel
[37:33 - 37:34] That's a great idea, actually.

Malak
[37:35 - 37:36] Yeah. Let's talk.

Hatem Alakeel
[37:36 - 37:37] Yes, absolutely.

Malak
[37:40 - 37:43] Hatem, thank you so much. This was amazing. Thank you.

Other speaker
[37:43 - 37:49] Thank you. It's my, it's really a pleasure and thank you for giving me this opportunity and, uh, I'm honored to be part of the, your podcast. Thank you.

Malak Fouad
[37:52 - 38:32] That was my episode with designer Hatem Alakeel, founder of Authenticite and host of the Gems of Arabia podcast. Hatem is a three-time winner of the Esquire Awards for Best Regional Designer. If you're a member of the show, you'll get a bonus episode with Hatem next week, where we talk about how he began supporting the creative community in Saudi Arabia and his diverse cultural life. You can also find extended clips from our episodes on YouTube and connect with us on Instagram X and on LinkedIn. Just search for What I Did Next. Thank you for joining me today. You've been listening to What I Did Next from A&T Media. I'm Malak Fouad and the show is produced by Chirag Desai. See you again in a couple of weeks.